The Betrothal Ceremony
From The Betrothal Ceremony by Greg Boyd
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11 comments
Roma Myers July 23, 2010
I found this to be a very clear teaching of what baptism is.
Thank you for your podcast also.
I would like to have study notes or guide. Is that possible?
Chloe July 26, 2010
Hi Roma,
The notes that are with this sermon can be found at the link below and then click on where it says ‘show’.
I got there by going to sermon resources/sermons, then clicking on the picture of the video of the sermon, and that’s where the notes are.
http://whchurch.org/sermons-media/sermon/the-betrothal-ceremony
blessings,
Chloe
Jim LePage July 26, 2010
Hi Roma – Another way to get to the link Chloe mentioned is by simply clicking the blue “FREE DOWNLOADS FOR THIS SERMON” button on the right side of this (or any sermon video) post.
L. Taylor August 7, 2010
Great lesson – love the idea of the betrothal ceremony. One major question though – if one is unwilling to go through the betrothal, how can one become married?
Gal. 3:26-27 says “for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” So it seems to me that baptism is part of putting on Christ. But then if you haven’t been baptized, how can you be saved? And what about 1 Peter 3:21? That seems pretty straight forward to me about the necessity of baptism for salvation.
Some things about this lesson seemed absolutely fantastic to me, but other things seemed inconsistent. Without being buried into Christ, I genuinely can’t understand how someone could be resurrected with him, yet baptism is the process of being buried with him (Romans 6:1ff).
That’s just what I see from scripture – I wish I could have further discourse on this topic. I’d love to see Greg answer some questions!
Thanks as always for your lessons!
L. Taylor August 7, 2010
Sorry, one more verse that I’d really like to have expounded. Greg said that baptism doesn’t wash away your sins, but then what are we to make of Acts 22:16? It looks a lot to me like that’s what is said there. Am I incorrect?
S. Gardner August 8, 2010
I’d also like to know the answers to L. Taylor’s questions. I have not found a teacher whose teaching that resonates with my understanding of Scripture as much as Boyd’s. But I am also curious about these questions that Taylor raises. The lesson was beautiful and very much like I’ve taught it, but I find an inherent tension with what Greg affirmed and what Taylor asks.
Scott Boren August 15, 2010
Excellent questions regarding baptisms. Let me weigh in with a few comments. First, while baptism is tied to belief in the NT, it is never made a condition. We don’t have concrete evidence where the question about a person’s unwillingness to be baptized is addressed. Second, the thief on the cross is told by Jesus “today you will be with me in paradise.” Obviously he was not baptized. Third, baptism is a sign of reality, a public display of what has occurred to us in our turning to Christ and the new life that we experience. I am sure that there are many who misunderstand baptism and see it as a proforma religious hoop and therefore don’t see its significance in their relationship with Jesus. Is God’s saving arm bigger than our misunderstanding? Well of course. I’m so glad that his salvation overcomes my misguided theology. I’m sure we will all enter into the Kingdom seeing lots of places where we got it wrong. When we look at Acts 22:16, baptism is not an actual washing of sins, as if the act is what saves us. In the first century, actions public actions had significant meaning. If you take away the final phrase in the sentence, “calling on his name,” then the meaning of the sentence completely changes. It would turn baptism into a proforma salvation hoop, similar to some kind of paying of membership dues to a club. If then a person does not enter into the betrothal period through the betrothal ceremony, again I think we have to look at the reality of God’s saving grace and his ability to draw us into a relationship with him, even though we might not get it right. However, with this new understanding we can be freed to see the proper role that baptism plays in our lives with Christ.
Michael August 26, 2010
And would that new understanding and proper role be that the Scriptures clearly teach that baptism is that by which God has chosen to wash away sins and has determined to make it the “ceremony” that demarcates one being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light?
Michael August 26, 2010
Could we have a faulty view of repentance and still be saved by God who seems to make a repentant heart a requirement to be saved by His wonderful grace in Christ? What other aspects of the process of salvation can we misunderstand and still expect to be blessed with salvation? In Col 2:12 Paul says that baptism, the invisible circumcision, is done through faith in the power of God. I don’t think we need to hedge so much about baptism being the consummation of the new birth into the new covenant and into the new Kingdom.
Nicole September 27, 2010
I really like that your baptisms are performed by the people, not just the clergy. We can all baptize each other, don’t need professional God people to do it. Just need to be genuinely committed to following Jesus. Love your teaching, Greg.
Mark Steele January 29, 2012
This is in response to the sermon titled the Betrothal Ceremony. I recently finished reading the book Myth of a Christian Nation which led me to your website for a visit. The book was good and made some very valid points. The reason I chose to view a video on baptism is because this one single act of obedience to Christ is where one can tell a lot about the teachings of those who call themselves teachers of the Word. Jesus said baptism saves you (Mk. 16:15,16). You said it does not.
The thief on the cross was not baptized according to what Jesus said to do because Jesus had not yet spoke these words prior to His death. Salvation is based upon the words of Jesus, not the thief on the cross.
The urgency of baptism you read about in the book of Acts (which you talked about) is for the same reason Jesus said, it saves. This is a simple message that is made complicated by men who want to make scripture fit their beliefs.
I would look carefully at 1 Pet. 3: 18-21 and decide whether or not to still spread the message that baptism does not save. The doctrine that baptism does not save is in direct opposition to Jesus and the scriptures.