Putting off immoral behavior can seem a lot like legalism. So, how do we reconcile that we were saved by grace not works and that we need to put off immoral behavior? In this sermon, Greg shows that we need to trust in God’s reality instead of how we define our own reality.
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Get Real
• Greg Boyd
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Last week, we saw that when Paul adopted the reality that God gave him, he began to look crazy to those that didn’t understand God’s work in his life. Living out God’s reality doesn’t align with the wisdom of this world. Giving extravagantly and loving your enemies is not seen as a wise choice, but that is God’s reality for us.
As we get back into Colossians, we encounter a verse that most people see as a list of rules. When we follow the rules, God gives us blessings and if we don’t follow the rules, God’s wrath comes down on us. This is a lot like a cosmic Santa Claus. In this viewpoint, God is always watching us and is writing down everything we do wrong or right. He then blesses us or gives us his wrath based on his naughty or nice list.
Some people counter this viewpoint by saying that our bad behavior doesn’t matter at all. People believe in Jesus but keep acting in immoral ways because they’re saved by grace. This is a cheap grace theology. When people accept this grace but don’t change their lives to align with God’s reality, it doesn’t show the beauty of grace but rather it shows grace as cheap. But just as the Santa Clause viewpoint can’t make sense of being saved by grace through faith, cheap grace can’t make sense of Paul’s injunction here in Colossians to put away immoral behaviors.
Both of these camps miss the boat. We are absolutely saved by grace through faith and not of our own works. And that statement is not inconsistent with Paul stressing the urgency of putting off immoral behavior. For Paul, God’s reality shows us the path to living. Trusting the reality of God is why we should shed these immoral behaviors.
Paul tells us to put off immoral behavior because that is trusting that what God says is true is indeed true. We need to get real with God’s reality because our reality fundamentally changed when Jesus died and rose from the dead. The old was slain and a new creation was made. This is not a far off reality either. This is present here and now. Many want to say that our new creation is in the future when Christ returns, but Paul writes that it is here now. By rejecting this true reality, we begin to believe other viewpoints that are not God’s.
When we reject reality, we eventually crash up against true reality. A person can jump off a cliff and decide that they will reject the reality of gravity, but reality will eventually catch up to that person. In the same way, when we reject God’s reality, it eventually catches up to us. This is how the Bible defines God’s wrath. It’s not God up in the sky with a big stick. Rather, it’s the consequences of our actions when we reject God’s reality and choose our own. We eventually hit the ground because of our choices.
In Paul’s writings, we see a call to accept God’s reality as true. Paul usually states what is real, as God’s grace defines it. He then tells us to get our minds to conform to it and then tells us to get our behavior to line up with what is real. This passage in Colossians is no different. Paul spent many verses explaining the new reality that we have because of Jesus. And then he tells us to live out that reality by shedding our immoral behaviors. It’s not a way to become a part of God’s community, but rather it is accepting a new reality that God made for us on the cross.
It all comes down to who we’re going to trust to define reality. Will we trust ourselves and those around us for reality? Or will we trust God and the reality that he has created? We are to be a people that agree with God about what is real. This is faith. And living out that faith is living out the reality that God defines. It is believing what he says about himself in Jesus. It is believing what he says about us in Christ. And it’s about believing what he says about others in Christ. By living what God created, we will shed our immoral behaviors.
Hide Extended SummaryTopics: Discipleship, Faith, Repentance
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Focus Scripture:
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Colossians 3:1-10
3 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[b] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.
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"My almost-three-year-old asks every day if we can go to church. Thank you, Woodland Hills, and all the Heroes Gate volunteers for creating such a great environment for kids. My husband and I met at WH six years ago and now our son counts down the days until we get to go again. My heart could burst."
– Lindsey
God defines what is real and our job is to get our minds to line up with it.
We have to envision truth and put off everything that’s inconsistent with the truth.
Live consistent with what is real. Don’t live in contradiction to what is real.
The pattern we see in Pauls writings is that he will first state what is real, then he’ll encourage us to have faith in what is real (to trust it, to see it), and then he encourages us to live it.
This is the challenge of faith: to take what God says is true and to see it even when it conflicts with everything else in your experience.
It’s like we have to superimpose on a physical world the truth of God.
If we do this… If we take the time and are intentional about walking in faith and envisioning this…. it’s only to the degree we do that that we access the reality of what God says is real. And that’s what brings about the transformation in our life. The more we do that, the more we experience it, the more it feels true, the more alignment there is. But the converse is also true. The “reality principle” is that If we don’t do it, to that degree we’re going to be living in contradiction to the truth as God defines it. And so to that degree the things that God says are true are going to feel unreal to us, it’s going to feel artificial and our life isn’t going to manifest it. So everything hangs on us committing to do this.
Amen!!!
The coin dropped into the slot! My goal is to change the way I view people. Now they all have unmeasurable worth. Praise the Lord, all glory is yours.
Hey Teresa, a great synopsis. Where you say “to that degree we’re going to be living in contradiction to the truth as God defines it. And so to that degree the things that God says are true are going to feel unreal to us”, Paul summarises it so well in Romans 1:25 “…they exchanged the truth of God for a lie…”….my paraphrase….they exchanged reality for unreality. It goes one step further where you mention “truth as God defines it”…is situation that only God is truth!
When Jesus was before Pilate He says “for this cause came I into the world — that I might bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.”
The whole creation was initially “true” or reality with man reflecting the image of God to creation with His attributes ie the fruits of the Spirit…love, joy, kindness etc. The fall changed all this to the extent that man lives the lie in unreality due to his own sinfulness. And, seeing the truth in Jesus, reminds them of their own sinfulness and why they wanted to kill the truth…Jesus.
So God in His great love provides a means for man to be restored to reality. So effectively, the church becomes a community true sons living this reality/truth to the rest of the world, guided by the Spirit of truth. Like Jesus and the apostles, it is no wonder that they (and we) come under such persecution as beacons of truth to sinful man…..who wants nothing better than to eradicate God from his presence/consciousness.
I found this publication to be great in understanding the whole matter…..although initially, I had issues getting into it in the first chapter, I skipped to P6 and it all unfolded from there:-
http://www.newcreation.org.au/books/pdf/149_Truth.pdf
First, I have to say that I am a fan of Dr. Boyd and his work. The only exception I have is his opinions on the LGBT community. When he makes comments about being part of the new creation and that we need to get our minds in sync with what is real, given his opinion that the LGBT community is unnatural in their desires, should I come to the conclusion that they are not part of the new creation? I know that Woodland Hills is compassionate towards the LGBT community, and there seems to be a welcoming spirit in your church, but I wonder how authentic that spirit is. When the LGBT community has the legal right to marry, not if, but when, how will the church see this? Save for his opinion on the LGBT community, Dr. Boyd’s theology makes him my favorite preacher in the world.
Salve Matteo! Queste situazione e molto complesso!
I’m not aware that Dr. Boyd has ever stated that he felt that the LGBT community was “unnatural” in their desires – ref.?
From my perspective though, I’d say that anyone within the LGBT community who seriously accepts deeply in their heart, mind and soul, the tremendous Love that Jesus demonstrated towards us by going The Cross, then YES, they would absolutely be part of that “New Creation” – You Betcha! (Rom. 5:8 – that includes me and anyone else who sincerely wants onboard!) As far as WHC’s “authentic spirit” what do you have in mind and who personally would actually measure that?
Ultimately, I’m not sure how Greg and his Pastoral team would respond to a State or National legalization mandate on Gay marriage ? However, I guarantee you they would be significantly more delighted than let’s say, those members of “Minnesota For Marriage” Ha!
I don’t recall the sermon but he does mention the “ideal” of marriage as one man and one woman (don’t buy that as Jesus may mention Adam and Eve and divorce, but isn’t very concerned about marriage given when the Pharisees ask him about the woman whose husband dies and she has to marry the brother – and not to mention Paul being dismissive about). I don’t doubt that Woodland Hills is open to the LGBT as being part of the community, but affirming? Interesting to see how he’d react to when it is legal if he will marry a same-sex couple before the community. I just think his opinion implies the same ambivalence that is prevalent in the evangelical, well now, most of the Christian community in which they are being forced to take a stand on the issue without demonizing individuals and groups. There is the notion that there is a need to be compassionate, but I wonder where is that compassion grounded? Their “condition” which again forces the evangelical community to remove embedded prejudices about the human condition? Their inequality in society before the law? It’s just very unclear to get Christians to show their true colors without dismissing the issue as being “too complex” to take a stand and accept the fallout.
Greg thinks that homosexual desires are a product of sin and the fall of man. At least for now.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
I think Jesus is pretty clear here. What Greg, you, me, or anyone else thinks is opinion. Our job is to introduce folks to FOLLOW Jesus. That’s about an ongoing, moment-by-moment, two-way conversation with Jesus following close, nose in the dust, on the narrow path of wisdom in the fruit of the spirit.
How well we do that will work on whatever our sin problems are making us more of a saint however dancing off that path takes us back again to sin chaos.
Matthew 9:9-13 Amplified Bible (AMP) As Jesus went on from there, He saw a man named Matthew (Levi) sitting in the tax collector’s booth; and He said to him, “Follow Me [as My disciple, accepting Me as your Master and Teacher and walking the same path of life that I walk].” And Matthew got up and followed Him.
Matthew at that moment was not in a very good spot. He was in a special category one step lower than the rest of the sinning folk however I think following Jesus worked out fairly well for him in that he ended up getting to write a gospel.
I know a lot of folk with a lot of health issues, in my opinion, stemming from a poor diet, lack of exercise, lack of sleep, and the worst part ongoing incoherent emotional states. When I talk to them they admit they have some problems HOWEVER at least they are NOT gay.
Another thing I find of interest is that they feel this is not their fault. They are just victims of an evil realm brought on by the current liberal left government and their issues will all fade away when the right [specifically Donald Trump] gets back in power.
They also don’t think well of me because I don’t care much about my family in that I don’t own I gun so I can protect them.
Romans 12:17-19 repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.
There are a lot of folks that the above verse doesn’t fair well and they resort back, for the most part, to the old covenant with a little sprinkle of Jesus on it.
I believe that might be some problems that need addressing and would like to think Greg is on it.
I’ve spent my life, like Elon Musk, on a critical path mission, often 12 hours a day or more, on expanding the writing of code [AI] to talk to computers.
Warning high nerd level to follow:
Today using Microsoft Copilot, formerly Edge Chat I entered:
McKnight foundation black lives matter Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion
responses:
BLM
https://www.mcknight.org/news-ideas/why-we-need-to-center-racial-equity-in-the-climate-movement/
DEI
https://www.mcknight.org/about/mission-values/diversity-at-mcknight/
3 charts: The second and third charts show how staff members identified themselves in terms of gender and sexual orientation.
Sexual Orientation 30% of staff homosexual, gay, lesbian, queer, bisexual, Bi-curious, Pansexual
Paul has a book “Understanding Transgender Identities”
HMM I entered: “what percent of the WoodHills church staff is from the lgbtq community”
Which brought me to this sermon page and Matteo’s response which implies NO WAY would Greg hire such folk but he would welcome them to the services and with this Matteo disagrees. [see above] and next two below responses
A deeper question beyond Microsoft Copilot, Chatgpt, Perplexity, Anthropic or XAI Grok [the big 5 so far].
Today the discussion among intellectuals is are we living in a hologram [virtual particles]?
Half the early church father thought so
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta-historical_fall
The Quantum – Reactivity Theory, if you believe that sort of thing says so.
Einstein’s equation E = mc2, relating energy to mass states all elementary particles interact with each other by exchanging energy through other quantum particles, which are believed to appear out of no where, combining and annihilating each other in less than an instant, 10(23) of a second, causing random fluctuations of energy without any apparent cause. The fleeting particles generated during this brief moment are known as ‘VIRTUAL PARTICLES’. They differ from real particles because they only exist during that exchange – the time of ‘uncertainty’ allowed by the uncertainty principle.
C. S. Lewis thought so: “The Great Divorce”
Hell is isolation. Hell is a drab and gray city with miles and miles of abandoned and boarded buildings. Why? Because people can’t get along with each other in hell so they continue to move further and further away. Napoleon, for example, lives on the outskirts of town, “about fifteen thousand years of our time “ away from the center and spends his days pacing back and forth in a huge house muttering to himself and assigning blame to everyone but himself for his failed life. It is a picture of loneliness, brokenness, ego, and misery.
Solid people. In heaven, everything is solid and thus painful to the visitors from hell. A blade of grass penetrates the feet. An apple is as heavy as a bowling ball. Water is solid even as it cascades down a river. The metaphor is one of wholeness and disintegration, a process in which a nucleus or other subatomic particle emits a smaller particle or divides into smaller particles. Synergistic relating to the interaction or cooperation of two or more organizations, substances, or other agents to produce a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate effects as “the synergistic interaction of mind and body“. Those in heaven are solid, real, human beings made whole by the Lord of heaven. Those in hell are miserable, disintegrated souls—ghosts who in living for self have lived for small things, shriveling up in the process.
There are only two kinds of lives in the end: “those who say to God: ‘Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, in the end, ‘Thy will be done.’ The debate: If God still leaves the gates open can the ‘my will be done folk’ still have a change of mind?
If the narrator, (Lewis himself), who in a dream boards this bus on a trip: are we ALL taking this trip every moment with the Holy Spirit as our guide and teacher but only if we chose to get on the bus? Should we ALL be bozo’s on this same bus?
Are you small in your own eyes and living for something greater or are you great in your own eyes and living for small things? Do you seek joy or settle for unappeasable pleasures? Are you becoming more solid, paradoxically by following Jesus or are you becoming less human, a ghost, as you pursue the agenda of self? The debate: So when does this bus ride end?
The choice starkly before us all: enjoy the happiness that God gives in creaturely response or eternally starve.
Another deeper question beyond Microsoft Copilot if the prior question premise holds true.
Is [preserving the hologram] the MAP climate change and the plight of whales and elephants or reuniting fallen spirits with the actual material the TERRITORY in Heaven the most urgent analytical or critical thinking path?
Analytical thinking is the ability to TACKLE complicated issues by evaluating information [you’ve gathered and organized and than adding a sprinkle of logic and critical thinking to analyze a situation – analytical Gen 1:28 social parameters [ethnic diversity].
Critical thinking is the ability to analyze, evaluate, and interpret information to form a judgment or decision – G2 critical truth
What’s G2?
https://reknew.org/2024/05/who-are-all-these-people-who-did-cain-need-protection-from-podcast/
The meta-historical fall [Gen 1], a pre-cosmic fall, is an understanding of the biblical fall of man as a reality outside of empirical history when Lucifer, the morning star, wanting to make himself like the most high FELL, [spirit ONLY leaving the material half behind], from Heaven taking a 3rd of everything to include angels, plants and animals so then in the PLANCK ERA before, quark-antiquark ENTROPY slaughter fall collisions resulting in 10 billion photons to 1 quark left over THE HOLOGRAM CONFINEMENT [now 2 eons],
– in an earlier time when GOD set the FINE TUNING elements in place, the only thing left after the fall, [THE WAY BACK Gen 2:2 a new eon 2 story] illuminated by RUACH Zero point animating energy to include molecules of EMOTION – Mind Body ligand receptor holographic Medicine Proverbs 17:22 a joyful heart is merry like a medicine but a broken spirit dries the bones.
Again with Microsoft Copilot help from the archives
https://whchurch.org/sermon/escaping-the-matrix-conference-part-1/
promoting the book “Molecules of Emotion”
Stars and fractal patterns and the many hearts of Wisdom
Spirits and the narrow path of wisdom and a unique light for each of EVERYTHING fallen to follow.
A course that Greg Al, Paul and later me worked on;
Theo-synergistic Neuro-Transformation™ Cooperating With God For A Change®
The Holy Spirit, ANIMATING RUACH ENERGY, calling-luring our Spirit out of darkness and our holographic particle avatar Flesh the same particles as at the fall in endless cycles of death and rebirth and the only thing left NEVER dying our neurons.
‘Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit, unless you are like little children you can’t even see the Kingdom of Heaven, you must be born again.’
Neurogenesis – every day you wake up Lam 3:22-23 there are new brain cells generated in your head: moldable, changeable, and fresh ready to be shaped, NOT by food or nutrients, BUT by your THOUGHTS on the only way back journey nose in the dust [ALL IN | SOLD OUT] on the narrow path of Wisdom dialed in on the Fruit of the Spirit.
Our avatar flesh is only capable of processing PIXELS so before we, spiritual beings, can see an image the wave function needs to be collapsed however: assisted by the focus, 5-9 chunks of meaning considered most important, of our souls: with best results only when closely following Jesus in the fruit of the spirit but then to only interact with others in this same temporary state but possibly not considering the same things important or not as dialed on Jesus.
HIERARCHIES lord over
mirror neurons empathy and understanding others’ EMOTIONS + – ? HOLARCHIES servants
(coherent incoherent) – Others-Oriented or [S]elf – [IN]dulgent – reversing ENTROPY or causing more
A Zero-Point is hedging and equal position on the long and short, God’s mathematics, anything else is speculation!
In Him we RUACH live and breath and therefore have our being so make a JOYFULL NOTE or NOT
Seeing the cup half empty and only getting worse or half full and moving, dancing back and forth, forward – the lens – analytical or critical
I gave a answer to that question:
https://whchurch.org/election-eve-keeping-perspective/#comment-258291
I thought I was responding to the sermon page https://whchurch.org/election-eve-keeping-perspective/#comment-258281 a response from Sarah made two days after this sermon but Emily informs me is was to the announcement page.
Read what Sarah is talking about… Sarah says:
on Wednesday November 6, 2024 at 12:17 pm
The certainty of election results have been announced. How will you respond, Greg, and how quickly will Reknew.org and Woodlands Hills respond?
Her question has nothing to do with a before hand announcement – it a question to Greg after the Nov 4 gettogether.
I’m still interested in a response from Greg on what I would consider an analytical thinking response. I lean critical thinking but might change for now on hearing what Greg has to say.
A little more on Elon who believes we live in a hologram:
Twitter X uses AI synergistically to evaluate personal history for simple, analytical and critical thinking at varying level degrees against the percentage of duplicity and dichotomy. How consistent are your skills levels against your levels of truth? 75% of U.S. folk use it and guess what?
Seeing from the glass half full and dancing back and forth forward.
You may not be aware but the 1st Neuralink telepathy devise implant resulted in a paralyzed, from the neck down, person who could, prior to the implant, only hold a pointer in his mouth to play chess on a computer screen now being being able to play the game by just thinking about it.
Neurosurgeons are required to play special games that require an insane amount of hand eye coordination for training purposes. AL and I developed one of these games for that purpose. The YouTube with the 5 guys, the guy on the end is watching out of the corner of his eye as they chat this 2nd implant paralyzed person play one of these games, that on his 1st day, just crushes the scores of all the staff at Neuralink.
Several days later he is back doing Neuralink staff level CAD software development by just thinking and by not needed hands he in super human fast.
They are hoping for more for this fellow. They believe within 5 years a guy could have a fall ending up completely paralyzed, blind, and with right hemisphere damage leaving him in a state of narcissistic sycophantic chronic low-level anxiety causing an overdrive left hemisphere, externalization of anomalously manifest internal conversations, that has drowned out and lost touch with its right functional big picture reality [schizophrenia] however they could haul him in the next day fixing all that and have him back to work fully functional by noon, only to follow-up for cosmetics options, for a price of $5000.
If you are one of this end time folk who believes the mark of the beast is a chip implant you will be forced to take in order to buy and sell this might alarm you.
Elon said a person with the three problems above is not functional at all but leaves ready to buy and sell again.
Elon says you won’t be forced to get this chip just the opposite. Elon bought Twitter adding X as a platform using AI synergistically entangling with the multi-layered arenas of XAI-Grok, COLOSSUS, Neuralink and whatever will strike his fancy next so as to determine your character makeup as to know how likely these, in this case 3 device installs, will be successful. There are only 3000 Neurosurgeons in the U. S. currently to monitor the AI Robots. Making robots is not a problem however he predicts millions will lineup with an extreme shortage on surgeons.
This is robotics on the fly creating nano-bot’s the size of a molecule small enough, like molecule of emotions to interface with cell ligand receptor sites.
Interview with 1st patient: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZa98YMgeCY
How the did it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAqnCYV5hkg&t=14s
The power behind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf8EPSBZU7Y&t=104s
Got up at 5.00 today: OOPs I missed one, from my prior comment, Plato and Socrates thought we live in a HOLOGRAM.
Greg’s sermon “Get Real” is incredible well worth the listen.
Greg said Philosophy 1st caught his attention.
For me it, in 11th grade, was Logic plus I had a gift in patterns the result of amblyopia, impaired or dim vision without obvious defect or change in the eye, sending a one eye perception to both brain hemispheres so instead of what the analytical left was expecting far out patterns. Groovy!
In Kindergarten I drew a picture using 1 point perspective, [a method that shows how things appear to get smaller as they get further away, converging towards a single “vanishing point” on the horizon], grabbing a ruler and figuring out how to use it to relate to the hologram inside my head so they put me with the smart folk and just left me alone.
I have to admit I don’t know much about Philosophy so let’s ask, [you don’t really understand complex equations until you can explain them to a four year old], MICROSOFT COPILOT.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. A lesson on how to get the best results from, a 4 year old, Copilot, noting [Co] you’re in control, so keep it simple, or NOT.
PLATO’S THEORY OF FORMS: is ultimately a way of understanding reality arguing that what people see and experience in their daily lives is actually just a REPRESENTATION, hologram of actual reality, which people cannot access but which influences the world nonetheless.
CHARACTERISTICS OF FORMS: distinguish them from their manifestations in the physical realm; include forms being:
ASPATIAL: not relating to, or limited to, a specific space or area.
ATEMPORAL: independent of or unaffected by time.
DIVINE: of, relating to, or coming directly from, the Supreme Being, God.
INTELLIGIBLE: able to be understood only by the INTELLECT, [the faculty of REASONING and understanding OBJECTIVELY, especially with regard to abstract or academic matters], not by the SENSES not perceptible, [a faculty by which the body PERCEIVES an external STIMULUS; one of the FACULTIES of sight, smell, hearing, taste, and touch].
Are you seeing the key words? I left 5 unanswered for your further ask COPILOT.
Humans cannot ever create forms in the physical realm, even in their own minds. People can comprehend the idea of forms, however: doing so is an important part of understanding the universe.
PLATO AND FORMS: arose out of the teachings of Socrates asking questions about how it is possible to know when a definition is correct from a LOGICAL STANDPOINT.
His ideas kept collapsing into CIRCULARITY, [Think in EXCEL], and infinite regress, which is where Plato’s theory came in: the realm of FORMS was OUTSIDE OF HUMAN FALLIBILITY and could therefore be RELIED upon for ACCURATE definitions.
PLATO’S DIALOGUES AND FORMS: PHAEDO, a dialogue between Plato and Socrates, talks about the immortality of the soul and some discussions of causality.
ALLEGORY OF THE CAVE:
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/seyer/files/plato_republic_514b-518d_allegory-of-the-cave.pdf , The Soul dancing back and forth, forward, [the lens How about Jesus], a logic and circular reference allegory of the cave and patterns in a hologram.